(no subject)

[cactuswatcher]

One thing that's being brought to the front by the "occupy" movement in the US is the escalating cost of college/university level education. My parents pretty much paid their own way through school with part-time jobs. Considering the times they couldn't have gone any other way. When I was in school most kids had jobs and got some assistance from their parents with some having to borrow a modest amount to make up the difference. These days part-time jobs aren't going to go very far in paying for school. Tuition and fees have just gone up too steeply, too fast. The escalating average debt coming out of college is beginning put the value of a college education into question. As I was starting college there was a huge boom in enrollment over the decade earlier. With things as they are now, I expect that there will be a dramatic drop in college enrollment within the next decade. How the larger US universities react may determine the future availability of college for many years to come.

Traditionally large universities have cut programs with smaller enrollments first in times of economic troubles. This time I think it would be a mistake. Large departments in large universities don't tend to do the best for the average student. Great students? It doesn't matter where they go. They'll do fine. Average students are better off in smaller departments. For majors like Psychology, English and History the average student is better off in a small college. If the larger universities cut diverse programs to save jobs in what I think are bloated popular departments small colleges are going to suffer and in the end so is the average student. I don't think it's going to happen, but what the larger universities should do is improve the standards for enrolling in some of those popular majors that don't lead directly to any particular job or profession. If you had to have a B average in the lower level classes to enroll in upper level Psychology classes a lot of kids who plod through with a largely pointless degree waiting at the end are going to have to look in different directions, whether it be to other programs in the university or to small colleges where their needs can be addressed more readily. College degrees shouldn't be like a glorified high school diploma; it shouldn't be about I put in my time and now I deserve a job. It should be about I found something that really interests me, I worked at it, I ended up doing well at it and now, I'm ready to put in the same kind of effort to earn a living.

Changing gears .
Monday there was a report of an unnamed "Big XII official" bad mouthing Missouri, saying West Virginia would be a better fit. Yesterday national sports outlets started reporting that West Virginia would accept an invitation to the conference to replace Missouri. By the end of the day, word was that West Virginia was going to accept an invitation to the conference today whether or not Missouri intended to leave. This morning there are reports that there aren't any invitations currently on the table, though expansion certainly is being considered.

This story seems to have begun from a West Virginia fan posting in the guise of a Kansas supporter in a forum of the Kansas City Star website. Somewhat out of the blue this individual posted a mostly logical explanation of why West Virgina was the best candidate to replace Missouri giving a few reasons why they thought West Virginia had superior credentials to Missouri.

The Big XII will certainly look to quickly fill Missouri's place should they leave. But the consensus is the other schools would prefer Missouri stay. Though all indications are that Missouri will leave sometime soon, I can think of nothing that would insure Missouri's departure more than extending a single invitation to a school that would be as isolated as West Virgina in the Big 12. Missouri is seeking to get away from instability and having a school that isn't within 600 miles of any other member hardly reinforces stability.

West Virginia may be currently targeted by the Big XII, but I have doubts that without at least two other schools being added in that direction at the same time , say Cincinnati and Louisville, that a membership of West Virgina in the Big XII would end up a satisfactory situation.

Comments

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

One thing I've learned from my life as a community college faculty member is that college is about social class. That's why the community college system is uniquely American, but also why so many excellent community colleges are so underfunded (in spite of which, they continue to provide good educations for the first two years as well as for many careers). Many in the other colleges would like to see the two year college turn into a technical training system, from which there's no passage to other levels for those who want it. The best solutions are those that give the same general education to all who attend, so that someone can start with a legal assistant degree as a first goal, but if they have desire and ability, use many of those courses toward a BA that will prep them for law school. If this were really well implemented, widely, many people could have several careers, and also get the broad education they need to move socially from class to class.

Soapbox time! Sorry!

[cactuswatcher.livejournal.com]

Soapbox orators are welcome!

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Agreed on the education bit. Was talking to my aunts, whose kids went through school about ten years after I did, maybe 15. They went to a State School, while I went to a private school, their education was $17,000 more than mine or my brother's.
Now the private smaller college that I went to costs $35,000 more.

I was a great student, but I tested poorly, undiagnosed discalcia/dyslexia - which meant that when confronted with multiple choice tests? I inevitably put my answers in the wrong place and often would have to spend an additional 30 minutes double-checking and fixing everything. (I looked through my grades - every course that was based purely on lecture and multiple choice or memorization style testing? I either got a C or lower. Every course that was based on research, writing, discussion, essay - I got a B or higher.
So getting rid of courses that focus on writing, discussion, interactive learning and focusing on courses taught by lecture - with a multiple choice computer test at the end, does not provide a well-rounded or even a quality education. But it is cheaper and easier. Heck, you don't even really need show up. Just take it online, or have a classmate tape it. Or buy really good notes. This is a way to save costs for Universities and High School - saves the teacher time. Heck it's a lot easier to prepare a lecture. Give it. Take a few questions. Give a computerized test. Have the computer score it. Objective, quick, easy - also discriminatory, and doesn't provide an education - as we can already see.
That's my worry. Because as the public high schools and state schools rely more and more on "lecture" and
"test", while the ivy leagues (Harvard, Yale) or the private schools (Colorad College, Cornell, etc) rely on interaction, discussion, experiments, research papers, written essay...we'll see a divide on class lines and racial lines. Those who can afford the private schools, and not just colleges, but private high schools, will get ahead - they'll have the skills they need to get a good job, along with the abilities to get those jobs. Writing is very important right now. While those who can't afford these schools - will be stuck in large lecture halls listening to a professor drone on for an hour, then have to take a multiple choice test at the end. Then be told if they fail - you aren't a good student. No, they just aren't a great secretary.;-)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Sorry for all the typos..must learn to proof before posting. Doing at lunch so rather fast.

Our poor public educational system is one of my biggest pet peeves.

[cactuswatcher.livejournal.com]

As the second half of the post above implies I went to a typical large state school. Because of one thing or another I didn't have many large lectures classes. Of those I did have, some were just awful, some were fine. One of the lecturers a lot of people hated was someone who was a decent teacher with a gruff personality. I never took a video-taped course though my school was one of the pioneers of such. Most people who took them thought they were at least entertaining; good or bad I don't know, though no professor ever looked at the exams from those courses.

As a psych major, I got by. I had a B average, but I never really felt a part of anything going on in the department, never cared to be a part of it either. I first took Russian because I thought it would be handy for grad school. The classes were excellent partly because they were small and personal. I got to know all the professors and instructors, even hung out with them in the student union. I was a good friend of a Russian instructor everyone dreaded taking classes from because she was so tough on her students. I was a ho hum psych student, even though I did get accepted to grad school in it. I was about the best Russian student the university had though it took till after I graduated to realize it was field where I belonged.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think you're right...I had a similar experience in Law School, went from big lectures to the smaller courses, and was able to be more interactive and did better.

Although - ironically, my nitch or what I'm really good at - in law school I had horrible grades in. Because those courses were all huge lecture halls and computerized tests or multiple choice. People often skipped the class and just took the exams. One guy - a straight A student rarely came to class and just took the tests.

The problem in Universities is the same with large high schools - I ran into the problem in high school more than college. I had to teach myself, as did my brother. We taught ourselves math. The school was too big. My favorite courses - the one's I could shine in were smaller, Honor's Social Studies, Theater, Art...where there were less students.

The way they are cost cutting across the board is irresponsible. They are cutting teachers, they are cutting on courses, but not on the technology.
It happened at the Railroad too, they spent all this money on being able to text message in subway stations, and have electronic count-down clocks,
and bring the technology up to scale, but skimped on important things like safety, cleaning the trains, and maintenance. And laid off people.

Steve Jobs and Bill Gates should be proud. ;-)

[ann1962]

We've begun gazing around at schools for Scarlet to attend. In <two years. She's got her hopes set high, as she should, but honestly I doubt I could make the amount of money in a year that these university's tuition numbers requires. I'd always thought I'd work full time then, to help with the costs. We've got some saved, but it is crazy. The average American yearly income is less than some of the schools she's looking at. That shouldn't be. We are hoping for some scholarships but even with that, probably won't make a dent.

[cactuswatcher.livejournal.com]

Yes, the partial scholarships that were a big help back in my day would be just a drop in the bucket these days. I hope Scarlet can find a happy medium between the dream and what she'll be able to afford in the long run.

[ann1962]

We have several options, so Scarlet is one of the fortunate. I feel for kids that have so few, or none.

[atpolittlebit.livejournal.com]

Right mow two of my nieces are attending community college to get the basic education requirements at a more reasonable cost. The younger one, who wants to be an exotic animal vet, has been accepted in a program that is new this year. Ohio State and Columbus State CC have started a program in which the student spends the first two years at CSCC and then is guaranteed acceptance to OSU afterward. I'm thinking partnerships like this may be more prevalent in the future.

[cactuswatcher.livejournal.com]

It's good that the CC and OSU are working together.

Veterinary medicine is a tough field. The roommate I had for a quarter at OSU was a vet student. Never saw anyone else study so much. I hope your niece does well.

[atpolittlebit.livejournal.com]

She's well into the applying herself part. She's been taking classes as CSCC for three years now. Graduated this past June with 24 credits already behind her. And, yes, I'm bragging on her a little because she deserves it.