No half measures

[cactuswatcher]

First off, from this morning's entertainment column by local reporter Scott Craven in the Arizona Republic, in a story about TV show fads that have died and should soon die:

"Current Icon that will never go bad -The undead (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel) Here's another that will stand the test of time. Pop culture will always have room for bloodsucking fiends, even those who may not be undead."


It occured to me when I woke up this morning that Illyria might be what happens when you pump too much demon essence into a slayer. The ancients offered Buffy more power in season seven. Its easy to understand that this is where that could lead to; the girl becomes more and more lost in the demon.

The episode had at least one really sad continuity flub. Back in the good old days W&H was 'only a little higher than vampires.' Um Illyria, honey, you're been dead millions of years. There were no humans back then, and according to cannon, vampires are a human-demon hybrid.. Yeah, the ultimate 'sire' may have been around back then, but in its pure form, not as 'vampires.'

So what's the story with Illyria now? Is she really going to play nice, or is she just going to use Wes like Evil Cordy used Connor to get her way in a new world? The season seems to be about bad choices, so for now I'd have to guess the latter. Wes is unwittingly going to replace the high priest he killed?. Could be. He certainly seems to have acquired a violent streak that Illyria might find useful.

Comments

[rahael.livejournal.com]

You know, last week I was going to ask you for your season ending prediction.

And then I find you saying on the board you already have some idea what you think.

So, do you have any predictions for what you think will happen at the end?

Warning Spoiler Spec below!!!!!

[cactuswatcher.livejournal.com]

I've had the feeling for a long time that the only way Angel can save any of his buddies and the world this year is to 'take it all back.' In other words Wes, Fred, Lorne and Gunn all have to be totally corrupted or destroyed. Then Angel has to find a way to undo his deal with W&H and put things back where they were. Whether that would bring Connor back to the 'family or not, I couldn't guess. (Sorry, Masq!)

Re: Warning Spoiler Spec below!!!!!

[ponygirl2000.livejournal.com]

Well, it does seem interesting that they introduced a character who can manipulate time, especially with all the emphasis on irrevocable loss in the episode.

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

The episode had at least one really sad continuity flub. Back in the good old days W&H was 'only a little higher than vampires.' Um Illyria, honey, you're been dead millions of years. There were no humans back then, and according to cannon, vampires are a human-demon hybrid.. Yeah, the ultimate 'sire' may have been around back then, but in its pure form, not as 'vampires.'

Do we know for sure though that there were no humans at Illyria's time? After all, she knew what they were when she saw them, in the very first scene with Wes, and called Spike and Angel "half-breeds" later. All that is known about the Old Times seems to be sketchy and vague, like any creation myth. So perhaps it wasn't the last demon to leave our dimension to bite a human and begin the race of vampires. But I don't think that necessarily makes it a real continuity issue. I doubt the word "vampire" was around when she was around, but she learned it since arriving back. As evidenced by the fact that she changes from calling them "half-breeds" to "vampires".

Actually it is clearly a continuity issue

[cactuswatcher.livejournal.com]

It was made abundantly clear in episode 15 that Illyria was not from the bitter end of the era of Demons. You have to fill in the details from real-world evolution. There were hominids millions of years ago, but no humans. You could make a case there were Turok-han. But pratically the first thing Giles tells Buffy in BtVS is that vampires were created as the demons left this reality.

Illyria clearly is drawing on some of Fred's memories. She understands too much about what is going on around her to simply be able to understand it from her vast intellect.

I should say...

[cactuswatcher.livejournal.com]

... that as could well be over a period of millenia, but certainly not the millions of years stretching back to Illyria's times.

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

Um Illyria, honey, you're been dead millions of years. There were no humans back then, and according to cannon, vampires are a human-demon hybrid.

I dunno, she seemed to know about humans, though she had expected them to have died out already. So if she knew about humans, it's possible she knew about vampires, right?

I'd like to think that Illyria was sincere in wanting to learn to live in a human world. She seemed genuinely lost and confused, willing to adapt. Don't know how well she'll adapt, or how Wes will handle teaching her, but I don't think they're going to go the Jasmine route again. Seems like they're twisting S4 on its head, which is kinda cool :)

Oops!

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

I should refresh the page before I post! But still, taking into account real world evolution of human beings, I think we can stretch "the time of the Old Ones" so that there's something of an overlap.

Re: Oops!

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

That's what I was about to post, but you beat me to it! Illyria said re: W&H that "in my time" they were ranked lower than vampires. "In my time" may not just refer to the first millions of years she was in power, but the last years of her life also, when things were changing.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Illyria had heard of humans. They must have existed when she was alive before. According to the story of the Old Ones (which Illyria is), they were driven into the demon dimensions when humans and the mortal animals came (The Harvest).

Now, the problem might be that according to the story, the last demon to leave our plane of existence bit a human and mixed their blood and became the first vampire, and Illyria might not have been around to witness that.

But Illyria is one of the Old Ones who wasn't driven away. Who remained on Earth. Of course, the legend goes that Illyria was killed by other demons (in some kind of demon coup) and may not have been alive to witness the rest of the demons being driven into the demon dimensions.

But dead isn't dead, especially for the Old Ones (noted in last week's ep). Maybe she has some knowledge gained after her death, OR, maybe she knows what Fred knows.

[cactuswatcher.livejournal.com]

The timing is still dead wrong. Illyria is described from the begining as being from millions of years ago. Unless Joss is going to take the time to tell us how he's rewritten evolution, there were no humans then period! She couldn't know about humans from her original days. That's another gaff, unless you assume she's getting info from Fred's memories, as you mention. The scene where she realizes her world is gone, just emphasizes it all. Humans weren't around when her fellow old ones put her 'in storage.' She was dead long before the demons began to decline on this plane, hence she didn't know or even imagine her army would be all gone when she returned. Thus, any of her knowledge of the modern situation must be Fred's, and that knowledge is incomplete.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Well, that's how I'm going to have to wank it. It's from Fred's knowledge. 'Cause humans millions of years ago? Hairy knuckles dragging the ground.